40

[kmad61]

I am getting ready to buy another 40 s&w.I ve narrowed it down to these pistols.
1.Sig p239
2.H&K Usp 40
3.Steyr M40
4.Walther p99
You all chime in and give me your thoughts.

[Macx]

If the first three are in your price range, you might want to bump #4 off the list. . . why lower yourself afterall. If you are in the least bit hesitant to spend the $$$ for #s 1 & 2 then you forgot the Springfield XD, which is superior to #4. I have not met #3 yet, so I have to confess not knowing if it should be on the wish list with the Sig and H&K, or the dis list with the German SW99.

[The Jeffly Has Spoken]

All good guns. You probably know already, but the Sig and HK are more expensive than the other two. Worth it, in my opinion, but some would argue with me.

My favorite of those is definately the Sig- I have one and love it. Put some of the Hogue wraparound monogrips on it and all of the sudden it's a great shooter, and an easy carry. It's probably the easiest carrier of those you have listed. The HK and Walther both have a reputation for being a little tough to conceal, with their big, blocky designs.

[cnemikeman]

All four of them are good guns. Each has strengths and weaknesses. You didn't really say what the main use of the gun would be...... so I can't give more without having further info. Of the bunch, the SIG would be the easiest to conceal, if that is an issue..... Steyr is an under-rated gun, IMO..... and the HK is a fine, if not a bit bulky piece. I like the lines of the Walther, though I haven't shot one of those ( yet)....... Lets get some more details on its purpose, and I'll try and chime in more details.......

MiKeMaN

[Ricochet]

kmad,
If I may ask, why did you rule out the SW99 and go with the P99 in your final list?

[The Paul]

All are good guns, I dont have much experience with the Sigs, but after posting on this forum for acouple of weeks I am getting interested in them. I think the USP is phenominal handgun, and if you get the right holster not to conceal at all. I prefer SOB holsters my self.

[BlackDog]

Posted by: Macx Today at 15:32:30

If the first three are in your price range, you might want to bump #4 off the list. . . why lower yourself afterall. If you are in the least bit hesitant to spend the $$$ for #s 1 & 2 then you forgot the Springfield XD, which is superior to #4. I have not met #3 yet, so I have to confess not knowing if it should be on the wish list with the Sig and H&K, or the dis list with the German SW99.

Macx,
What, specifically, makes the XD superior to the P99?
Just curious. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if you don't mind, could you explain? Clearly, you have a serious problem with the P99, so what's it based on? If there are specifics, why not share them and help educate everyone on the board? Just saying a specific gun is bad (or a waste of money or junk, or whatever) isn't very valuable to someone seeking information unless it includes the facts upon which that opinion is based. Please enlighten us.

Kmad, I can't say anything about the HK or the Steyr because I've never owned or shot either, but I can say that, in my opinion, the other two are very good handguns, but wrap your hands around them, and if at all possible, see if you can shoot them somewhere. It doesn't matter what a bunch of strangers here on some message board think, the only things that matter are which feel better in your hands, which features are more important to you, and which you shoot better.
BlackDog
PS- Keep in mind that the P239 is smaller than all of the others you've listed, so it may not be a true apples-to-apples comparison.


-edited for typo-

[MrBond]

BlackDog:
Please forgive the individual in question, he has no clue about the Performance of the WALTHER P99. Just read some of his posts, he has not one gripe that he justify in saying the Walther is anything but a real high end handgun. He has no backing or proof that this gun is anything but great. No data ,just his stupid remarks. Just save your breath it s like talking to a small child. Don t ask such a difficult task of him


Kmad61:
I would not remove your fourth choice off the list. Don t listen to inexperience fools, talk to owners to collect your own data

Since I joined this forum, 4 people have bought this gun and love it. Also more are looking into being proud owners

Mr. Bond

[Jonathan]

Macx said:

If the first three are in your price range, you might want to bump #4 off the list. . . why lower yourself afterall. If you are in the least bit hesitant to spend the $$$ for #s 1 & 2 then you forgot the Springfield XD, which is superior to #4. I have not met #3 yet, so I have to confess not knowing if it should be on the wish list with the Sig and H&K, or the dis list with the German SW99.

WTF? Are you serious? Dude I would take the Walther P99 over any of those listed guns at the drop of a hat. If the P99 were $2,000, it would still be my first gun purchase. Price isn't an issue for me. What, would you like the Walther P99 more if they raised its price three-hundred dollars?

Nothing but good things have been said of the Walther P99. Hell I wouldn't even consider some of those guns listed. Thats just me. To each their own I guess. Say what you want of the P99 but to say it is anything but top of the line is a joke. Price means nothing in the handgun world.

The Glock is the perfect example of a handgun in which is relativly inexpensive but to many is the greatest creation ever.

I personally believe that the H&Ks and 1911s are way over-priced. I would still buy them but I would much rather spend that kind of money on a gun that appeals to me 100% like the P99.

[SectionTRT]

I agree that the P99 should not have been taken off the list as it is a very good handgun. However, as for the H&K being over priced, I believe you get what you pay for...

[Jonathan]

SectionTRT said:

I agree that the P99 should not have been taken off the list as it is a very good handgun. However, as for the H&K being over priced, I believe you get what you pay for...

In most cases I would agree with you but not for handguns. There are lots of handguns that are over-priced and there are other guns to which I find under-priced.

I would have paid a lot more than I paid for the Walther P99.

There are many $400 guns that I feel could get the job done just well as an H&K. The H&K is a great gun, no doubt about it but I couldn't justify buying an H&K over some guns that cost significantly less to which also appeal to me more.

The Glock appeals to me more than the H&Ks for example. You could switch the prices and make the Glocks more expensive and I'd probably still buy a Glock before I buy an H&K. Thats just my opinion of course.

[Jonathan]

MrBond said:

BlackDog:
Please forgive the individual in question, he has no clue about the Performance of the WALTHER P99. Just read some of his posts, he has not one gripe that he justify in saying the Walther is anything but a real high end handgun. He has no backing or proof that this gun is anything but great. No data ,just his stupid remarks. Just save your breath it s like talking to a small child. Don t ask such a difficult task of him


Kmad61:
I would not remove your fourth choice off the list. Don t listen to inexperience fools, talk to owners to collect your own data

Since I joined this forum, 4 people have bought this gun and love it. Also more are looking into being proud owners

Mr. Bond

Couldn't have said it better myself. Flawless victory. LOL. Well put Mr. Bond.

[Macx]

Really, my only gripes against the P99/SW99 is that they are in all [glow=red,2,300]practical[/glow] ways, the same gun. No amount of badge switching is gonna suffice to differentiate them. Beyond that there is a slight diffrence in finish, but then a nickel plated 1911 and a chrome plated 1911 are both still 1911's. I am not as Mr. Bond presupposes saying that nickel & chrome are the same, nor that the Walther and S&W are the same in finish, but more to the point. . . what is under that finish is essentially the same gun. All the 100% German rhetoric in the world won't make the Walther something other than a hybrid cashing in on an old and respected name. Kinda like the Excelsior-Hendersons and Indians that have recently been produced in the motorcycle community. . . . some original pieces mixed in with propriety this and that, badged with an old and respected name and pawned off on the hoplessly image fixated.

I never have said that the P99/SW99 is something other than what it is. It is a mid-price range polymer framed, modern design, unfortunately tied to Smith and Wesson. Smith and Wesson has a good and well deserved reputation for wheel guns, however some of their attempts at semi-auto have been . . . um . . . . less than well thought of. If Kimber and Jennings (or whatever the bottom of the barrel is called) were to do a joint venture I wouldn't trust it either. Yeah, I would love to have something that said Kimber on the side, but if it was a joint venture with a lesser company . . . and the architecture of the gun were by the lesser company, no ammount of Kimber badging would make me feel okay about it. Heck, if they made Jennings in the Kimber plant they might even be a touch better, but it would still be a Jennings. In much a similar way, the SW99/P99 is a joint venture, I simply wouldn't trust.

There are simply too many other guns out their to choose from, to settle for a miracle of modern marketing which may or may not yeild a desireable end. On occassion products cobled together with propriety parts can be quite desirable. . . Aprilia is a good example (again from motorcycles: Brembo brakes, Rotax engine, etc.) Aprila and BMW even did a joint venture for a while in the Pegaso 650 / F650 motorcycles . . . were the F650s 100% German made? Um, no. Did it make a difference? Um, no.

Is the price difference between the P99 and the SW99 worth it? Only if it helps ya sleep better, and even then it is probably placebo. Is the P99/SW99 a good gun? Maybe, but the other things in the price range have less dubious linage.

Finally, IMHO the styling of the SW99/P99 is over done. . . . give me Form Following Function every day of the week please. The beveling on the slide, bump in the trigger guard, BFU grip, and DAU magazine release just scream "cobled together from old ray gun toys after drinking too much and watching Bladerunner".(Which BTW is too good a movie to be mentioned with the 99 twins).

_{BFU is an acronym for backside fornicating unattractive, while DAU would be an acronym for Dogs Anus ugly, thanks for your indulgence}

P.S. I have difficulty understanding Mr. Bond's assertion that my comments regarding the SW99/P99 are childish, when I speak of the apparent truth & he quotes websites that fail to disprove my points. Why does the Walther website read "In 1999, another step was taken to bring the Walther name into the new millennium. Smith & Wesson of Springfield, Massachusetts and Carl Walther GmbH of Germany announced a joint plan to form Walther USA to distribute Walther branded firearms, air guns and accessories in the United States." if there is no link between these companies? Why does the FAQ page Mr. Bond is so fond of only make reference to different finishes and barrel metal composition & no mechanical differences? What part of the Walther 99 cannot be exchanged with a S&W 99 or vise versa? If one were to photoshop the emblems (and only the emblems) off a pic of both in like finish, could they be told appart? All this and Mr. Bond asserts I am not working from facts.

[Jonathan]

Macx said:

Really, my only gripes against the P99/SW99 is that they are in all [glow=red,2,300]practical[/glow] ways, the same gun. No amount of badge switching is gonna suffice to differentiate them. Beyond that, there is a slight diffrence in finish, but then a nickel plated 1911 and a chrome plated 1911 are both still 1911's. I am not as Mr. Bond presupposes saying that nickel & chorme are the same, nor that the Walther and S&W in finish, but more to the point. . . what is under that finish is essentially the same gun. All the 100% German rhetoric in the world won't make the Walther something other than a hybrid cashing in on an old and respected name. Kinda like the Excelsior-Hendersons and Indians that have recently been produced in the motorcycle community. . . . some original pieces mixed in with propriety this and that, badged with an old and respected name and pawned off on the hoplessly image fixated.

I never have said that the P99/SW99 is something other than what it is. It is a mid-price range polymer framed, modern design, unfortunately tied to Smith and Wesson. Smith and Wesson has a good and well deserved reputation for wheel guns, however some of their attempts at semi-auto have been . . . um . . . . less than well thought of. If Kimber and Jennings (or whatever the bottom of the barrel is called) were to do a joint venture I wouldn't trust it either. Yeah, I would love to have something that said Kimber on the side, but if it was a joint venture with a lesser company . . . and the architecture of the gun were by the lesser company, no ammount of Kimber badging would make me feel okay about it. Heck, if they made Jennings in the Kimber plant they might even be a touch better, but it would still be a Jennings. In much a similar way, the SW99/P99 is a joint venture, I simply wouldn't trust.

There are simply too many other guns out their to choose from, to settle for a miracle of modern marketing which may or may not yeild a desireable end. On occassion products cobled together with propriety parts can be quite desirable. . . Aprilia is a good example (again from motorcycles: Brembo brakes, Rotax engine, etc.) Aprila and BMW even did a joint venture for a while in the Pegaso 650 / F650 motorcycles . . . were the F650s 100% German made? Um, no. Did it make a difference? Um, no.

Is the price difference between the P99 and the SW99 worth it? Only if it helps ya sleep better, and even then it is probably placebo. Is the P99/SW99 a good gun? Maybe, but the other things in the price range have less dubious linage.

Finally, IMHO the styling of the SW99/P99 is over done. . . . give me Form Following Function every day of the week please. The beveling on the slide, bump in the trigger guard, BFU grip, and DAU magazine release just scream "cobled together from old ray gun toys after drinking too much and watching Bladerunner".(Which BTW is too good a movie to be mentioned with the 99 twins).

_{BFU is an acronym for backside fornicating unattractive, while DAU would be an acronym for Dogs Anus ugly, thanks for your indulgence}

All that jibberish and yet no real answers were given. First off we're not talking of the SW99. I personally couldn't care less of the SW99. I'm sure its a great gun but the P99 has proven to shoot tighter groups.

The Walther P99 9mm is 100% German made. S&W just exports them and engraves their name on the slide. Its like Suzuki motorcycles. GM owns Suzuki but they don't have anything to do with the engineering of Suzuki motorcycles. Suzuki sports bikes are hand built in Japan and shipped to the US.

I own both a 2003 Suzuki GSX-R1000 K3 and a 2002 Camaro Z28. Both Suzuki and Chevrolet are owned by GM but they're built in two different countries. Canada and Japan.

You have no good reason to dislike the Walther P99 from the sound of it...Quit wasting our time with BS.

Speak of possible flaws like the odd clip release or something of that nature but don't give us BS about the gun being built by two manufactuers. For all I know H&Ks are built in the Philippines.

[Macx]

Ah Johnathan, you have beat Mr. Bond to the response. . . nothing like young quick reflexes But you have rushed your answer. Suzuki's motorcycle division is actually owned by Kawasaki, it is only their auto division that is owned by GM. Further, you would be hard pressed to find an interchangeable part between your car and your bike . . . so your logic is faulty in countering my asssertion that the SW99 and P99 are mechanically interchangeable. . . which they are. Since money is not a problem for you, why not go buy a SW99 (then you will have two 99s and not pay so much for the second) and start swapping parts. When you get to the part that won't transfer, tell me, and I will be glad to back off on this point. Until you find the part of a SW99 that can't be swapped for a P99 part, I will have to assume you are opperating out of misplaced pride, arrogance, buyers remorse, or ignorance.

The Walther is "proven" to shoot tighter groups than the S&W, by who? What empirical research? How many testers with what controls and under what conditions? Were they fired back to back? Same conditions of lighting, weather, time of day, etc? You toss out accusations of B.S. and then fail to cite any real evidence, heck even Mr.Bond cites his cheesy-says nothing FAQ website.

You "personally couldn't care less of the SW99" . . . well, ya better, cause you are gonna get one pretty soon all wrapped up in pretty Walther labels.