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Post by Callahan on Nov 23, 2003 1:14:35 GMT -5
What if your employer says that all weapons: guns, knifes, whatever, are forbidden, not only on your person but on company property? That means that if you get caught with a gun in your car in the company garage and you are fired!
Are you willing to take the risk and leave it in your car parked in the company garage? Remember, if someone narcs on ya, the company security officer will search your car, with your permission, because you have signed a release agreeing to a search as a condition of employment.
Are you going to drive downtown with a gun in your car and park in the company garage or not?
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Post by tptplayer on Nov 23, 2003 7:00:15 GMT -5
I would never, never carry in my workplace. One of those specifically prohibited areas. But I don't worry about the gun or guns in my car too much. At worst, I would expect a private warning from my boss.
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Post by dubbleakshun on Nov 23, 2003 12:28:25 GMT -5
Company policies are just another way of diminishing your legal rights,and believe me,most large corporations are all for inslavement of the working class,including anyone on the payroll.First comes the diminshed rights imposed on military installations,when that works it is passed down to all government installations and employees,when that passes with the people,the corporations pick it up,and presto,no more rights.We have seen the same thing with mandatory and random drug testing,which first statred out on military pilots as a safety issue.
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Post by Callahan on Nov 23, 2003 12:38:45 GMT -5
TPT Player:
The poicy says anyone found with a firearm on their person or on company property is subject to immediate termination of their employment. Kinda a big risk, isn't it? What about your boss's boss. How does he/she feel?
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Post by dubbleakshun on Nov 23, 2003 13:09:40 GMT -5
Callahan;My company has something called "Corporate Policy",which I use to void out "Company Policy" imposed by someone due to their own preferences.Back in '94 corporate policy came down with guidelines for carrying weapons in private owned vehicles in order to accomodate certain management positions during deer season.It limited the carrying of firearms to be in cases,unloaded,and locked within an employee's vehilcle while parked in the employee parking lot.The policy described the firearms as being "Sporting Weapons",which I challeged because "Weapon" is a fighting implement,where it would seem that their description would allow firearms designed for the use of fighting for sport.Deer Hunting is not fighting for sport,but rather "Sport Hunting".I arranged for an appointment with the management of Human Resources to discuss this issue and walked away with a letter allowing me to posses my Sporting Pistols on compny premises within the guidelines set forth by Corporate Policy, in securing such Sporting Pistols within my Privately owned vehilcle.Since that issue another Human Resources manager posted a Company policy such as yours,about weapons on company premises.The definition of weapon was not clear,so I challenged it also because 100% of the hourly work force is issued retractable utility knives,this was two years prior to the attacks of 911.I explained that the knives could be implemented as weapons,even though they were not designed as such,same as my sporting pistols.My words fell on the deaf ears of ignorance,and as I took copies of the Company policy to retain in my own files I noticed days later that the company policy had been removed.Anytime there is no clear cut policy to rules governing an issue,it becomes flawed and also becomes null and void of any legal action.Find a flaw,and you might find reasonable cause for a class action lawsuit.
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Post by dubbleakshun on Nov 23, 2003 13:30:46 GMT -5
Another issue is the infringement of rights to carry onto company premises a firearm.This puts the employer with the responsibilty of providing security in the event that the workplace is targeted by violent acts where the employees are left defenseless,totally upon the mercy of policy.This also includes your own right to self defense protection while traveling to and from the workplace.The work place environment is unsafe for employees during attacks by lone gunmen, because it offers the attacker his victums who are unable to fight back,and in some cases confined and unable to exit.This scenario has been the same during many workplace incidents,where the victums were confined to their workplace unable to fight or retreat in order to escape.One armed employee could have made a big difference.
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Post by tptplayer on Nov 23, 2003 13:34:23 GMT -5
I was sufficiently persuaded by your argument to go to www.packing.org and carefully reread Florida law concerning my own situation. The law says (or seems to say) that I can’t carry anyplace around work but that “securely encased” in the car is OK. “Securely encased” can be loaded in the glove compartment, a plastic box or even in a snapped holster not on your body. I do not tell anyone outside of my family that I carry. I am very open about liking to target shoot but not about concealed carry. In the instance that you mention, the wise thing would be to follow company policy. I do appreciate that you and the other members of the forum “watch the back” of those of us who are less experienced with handguns. ;D |
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Post by dubbleakshun on Nov 23, 2003 15:45:26 GMT -5
Tp;In my own situation,Company policy and Corporate policy had their indifferences,mostly due to the fact that the person who wrote the Company Policy did so without first consulting with the existance of the Corporate Policy.I always obtain copies for my own records whenever any postings occure involving my rights to carry.I look at things like this;After serving six years of active duty in the armed forces,at which point did I become incompetant to carry a firearm in the line of self defense? Most of these screw heads who write policies are nothing more than ignorant arrogant fraternity boys and girls, who spent most of their lives confined in a sheltered environment.
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Post by tddude on Nov 23, 2003 16:58:11 GMT -5
Get good at concealing and keep your mouth shut. If there are no metal detectors, there seems to be no reason that anyone should know.
You can always go to work for a small business that would be glad to get a good qualified honest employee.
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Post by dubbleakshun on Nov 23, 2003 17:47:53 GMT -5
It's all about Principals and Dictation;I am still offended at who dictates to me what my rights are,and who thinks they are so far above myself as to appoint themselves as custodian over those rights.Bill Clinton failed to strip us of our rights,and I strongly oppose some 25 year old screw head, straight out of college, to do much more.You want to screw them up;talk but never carry to work,and when they decide to search,and point you out,leaving all others exempt,sue their corporate asses off.
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Post by Callahan on Nov 24, 2003 10:56:14 GMT -5
I really never intended to actually walk into the workplace with a firearm, it was the part about not being allowed to have one on company property (locked in my car in the company garage) that bothered me. If I'm going downtown, I would like to be able to carry a firearm with me for the trip and leave it in the car. The policy seems to forbid that.
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Post by tptplayer on Nov 24, 2003 12:08:28 GMT -5
That is exactly how I feel about it. Wouldn't want to carry at work but if I can't have it in the car, 85% of my concealed carry is eliminated. And I usually go to the shooting range straight from work. My situation is covered by Florida law rather than company policy. It appears that I can have a gun in the car parking lot but can't concealed carry even in my car in the parking lot.
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Post by MLB on Nov 24, 2003 13:35:33 GMT -5
Get good at concealing and keep your mouth shut. I got similar advice from my local pistol permit office when I had questions regarding where I can carry. |
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Post by Callahan on Nov 24, 2003 13:39:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought about that. I don't think they have the official sign posted banning carry so you would not be violating state law carrying on company property, only company policy. But violationg company policy can get ya fired!
Also, if you got in some sort of fracas that the company heard about while you were on your way to or from work, what could you say?
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Post by dubbleakshun on Nov 24, 2003 14:19:41 GMT -5
The Bottom line is that you give up many of your rights in order to comply with Company Policies set by your employer,failure to comply with those policies can result in displinary action,including termination.The only thing you can do is look for loopholes in the policy in order to cover your ass.
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